The Faithful

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:04 pm

The meeting regarding the sale of Jack was held second at 7.30pm and generated some good discussion.

It was pointed out to the meeting that the intended purchaser was the same person that defaulted on purchasing Major Star.

Part way through the meeting and prior to any vote being taken Andrew, the syndicate manager’s, phone rang and it was Barry Purdon advising that a subsequent offer had been received this evening for an additional $3,000 from the well respected Fitzpatrick stable.
The prices offered from the two competing parties were relatively similar but the quality of stable offering to take Jack was no doubt a factor influencing the end result which was 34 for a sale versus 1 to retain the horse (the proxy votes were unanimous).  We await the receipt of the funds before Jacks passport gets an Australian stamp.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:09 pm

Conwell wrote:The Faithful only won 1 race this season but still netted $30.6K which is close to paying his way.

The beancounter in me needs to point out the following.......
Stakes earnings of $30,595 need to be adjusted for the automatic deduction of 10% that goes to the trainer and the 5% deduction that goes to the driver.  As owners we only ever see a maximum portion of 85% (less if it is a large stakes win as the manager gets a chunk as well) which in Jack's case leaves us with $30,595 x 85% = $26,005 for the year, against estimated training costs of $35,000.  A deficit of nearly $9,000.
I struggle to justify retaining him based upon this analysis.

As to value my initial gut feeling prior to the price being disclosed was an indicative value of $35,000 to $40,000 so the offers do not disappoint me too much.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:02 pm

Yes, it's a tough one Conwell , and personally I wouldn't be concerned if he went to a good home for use as a riding or training horse but such opportunities do not readily present themselves and I am just one of a  number  so the alternative of selling for a reasonable price as a racehorse is reasonable.

I thought around $35000 was realistic so the price change is still within the ballpark.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:44 pm

I am quite torn about the possibility of selling Jack.

Yes he has been out of form since his gallant effort for 5th in the Auckland Cup on new years eve and his stats of 16 starts for 1 win and 2 placings this season don't look that impressive but he has still netted $30,595.

"Accepting $37 000.00 is probably equivalent to winning over four $15 000.00 races at Auckland. Jack is highly unlikely to do that based on how he is going, but if he did it may very well take him 12 months or even longer to win four races at a cost of perhaps $35 000.00 or more." quote Andrew Jamieson

Well we now know that the $37K offer has been withdrawn and the offer on the table is now $33K, so I give you a few points of consideration.
*The Faithful only won 1 race this season but still netted $30.6K which is close to paying his way.
*Only 5 of his 16 starts this season were in races for $15k or less as he was specifically targeted to race at Premiere meetings.
*Jack has had 8 wins at Alexandra Park so his next 2 wins would come with 50% bonuses from the ATC.

While all of these points are supportive of not selling Jack, I realise that even if he was able to pay his way for another season he probably wouldn't be worth 33K in a years time so you need to factor that in too.

Ultimately I think the right decision is to sell him, I'm really just looking for a reason to justify keeping him. Smile

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:23 pm

He has given us his best on so many occasions and is much loved but it has been a bit of a struggle lately. His current break will hopefully refresh him, maybe in another environment.  Awaiting further news.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:41 pm

The recent newsletter indicated that Jack's New Zealand racing is likely to be in its twilight and this has become a developing story now that we have received a subsequent email advising us of an impending meeting on Wednesday regarding a proposed sale. Price is currently undisclosed and 2014 syndicate members should find this out tomorrow.
In my opinion his future racing career lies in Australia.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:39 pm

Did well from his draw last night and was a respectable 4th, leaving some nice horse flesh to finish behind him.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:41 pm

I see that The Faithful was given a hard working run at the workouts on Saturday in preparation for his return to racing. It will be good to have him back and hopefully running in his own class. Shandale has arrived in Perth and is trialling well. Ohoka Punter is here in the Gary Hall stable and Runrunjimmydunn was very impressive at Gloucester Park last Friday as was Eyre Crusher both also in the Hall stable.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:13 am

I see that our little horse, The Faithful, is up against the current Interdominion winner, 2 Miracle Mile winners, 2 current Auckland Cup placegetters, plus The Orange Agent and Waikiki Beach and has drawn the back row. He is giving away up to 30 grading points in order to get a start in a race. If he can finish in amongst a pack like that then he will have done us proud.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:15 pm

Outwardly it may have appeared a little disappointing but in reality that is about as fast as Jack can run.
His finishing time converts to a mile rate of 1:55.3 and his fastest ever time (running a place) is 1:55.1. He isn't best suited to short distance sprinting as his 5th in the 3200 metre Auckland Cup demonstrated. Next weeks 2200 metre may be better.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:07 am

Very disappointing run last night by The Faithful last night,hope all ok !.Tough race fresh up from a couple of months break so hopefully just in need of the run.
Winner huge potential,runner-up wow run,good thing it didn't win after Mark P's going public with his intended driving tactic's to look after him .

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:23 pm

Good to hear of the stakes rise,yeah apartment sales may be behind that.Must be a few with money to plunge into that crazy Auckland housing market,overseas buyer's ??? ,not a fan of foreigner's buying up my homeland though !
Anyway hope the road ahead will be good for harness racing in NZ,not always positive the news I've been hearing.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:09 pm

geejay wrote:Did I miss something,been wondering why the absence of The Faithful from the track lately and now seeing he won't be back until march ,has there been a problem after his last race,or is it just a lack of suitable races with all his good rivals absconding to Australia ,dam good move for them it certainly has been ! Sorry Des  you have had to watch this while your one sits home,a bit painfull.
No one has quelled my curiosity since I said it  be great to know what David Butcher had to say after his last race after a couple of rough steps and not being very vigorously driven out from my observations.Hope all good with him !

I haven't heard anything negative about the horse's condition but that trainer, Barry Purdon, has decided to race The Faithful at the March premier meeting with a prior workout scheduled for 25th.February. There were only 4 nominations from memory for the tighter class race at Auckland this week so the event was canned but a couple of those have been placed in a mixed ratings event over 2200metres mobile. They have of course been handed the worst draws which would have been his fate had he been entered no doubt.

I don't recall any profound statements  coming from the mouth of David Butcher other than confirming what we could see, in that he did pace a little unevenly in the straight , possibly due to being less comfortable left handed.  

The announcement today that Auckland stakes are likely to boost by $40000 per race day from next August (presumably apartment buyers will have settled by then) is welcome news and hopefully will arrest the exodus of horses to Australia, provided they increase stakes across the board, and not just for maidens.  By that time, our 2014 syndicate horses will be 7 years old but not too old or worn out to share in some of the spoils.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:32 am

Did I miss something,been wondering why the absence of The Faithful from the track lately and now seeing he won't be back until march ,has there been a problem after his last race,or is it just a lack of suitable races with all his good rivals absconding to Australia ,dam good move for them it certainly has been ! Sorry Des you have had to watch this while your one sits home,a bit painfull.
No one has quelled my curiosity since I said it be great to know what David Butcher had to say after his last race after a couple of rough steps and not being very vigorously driven out from my observations.Hope all good with him !

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:18 am

For those that do not have access to, or have not as yet caught up with, the phone message system...
There was a message placed on the system on Saturday by Rob advising that Jack's return to racing has been delayed and he will now not race until March 3rd at Auckland and then again on the 10th. On the 3rd there is a Group 3 1700m race and then on the 10th there is a Group 2 2200m Auckland Free-For-All. There will be a workout prior.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:25 am

Well Des, you're probably correct to an extent as many would prefer to watch their horses at home with all the social and equine contact which that involves, a bit like a sporting fan enjoying attending a home game.
Funding an overseas trip is a relevant issue.  The rules require stake monies to be paid out when they reach $10000 while a travel fund of $10000 is usually held from other funds built up from subscriptions but this would have had a large dent in it following the South Island trip. So there is probably not much left at the moment.  With a small ownership base it is much easier for the registered owner to cough up a few thousand to underwrite an overseas trip.
Syndicate horses have raced in Australia in the past, usually in races they have been entered for as yearlings or qualified for (e.g. Inter Dominions), generally these have been on a hit and run type basis, not as a prolonged trip.
All the main tracks in Australia are left handed, which doesn't help much.
As for Mr. Trump, well he is ensuring that the media is fully occupied and I understand that he was loved by his mother, when a child.
Good to read that a warm welcome awaits you in Iceland and New Zealand. When you visit you will find there are no snakes in either country.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:18 pm

At Melton today Rocker Band won a group 1 mares race. Hughie Green raced in the death seat and pulled away to win with comments like he will be the new top dog in Queensland where he is going to be based. Hug The Wind is 15/1 for the Hunter Cup. No Doctor Needed has won both his races at Menangle. These are the horses that The Faithful has been mixing it with yet there is a great reluctance from syndicate members to race overseas because of a desire to watch the races live.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:21 am

I have just watched the replays from the big meeting at Melton today. If anyone is in the slightest doubt about the absolute superiority if the NZ horses over the Australian horses then the replays show that it is no contest.
Rocker Band ... win from 3 back on the sprint lane.
Jacks Legend ... win from back in the field.
Vincent ... dominant win from the death seat.
Moto Meteor ... win from the sprint lane.
Sunny Ruby ... easy win from the sprint lane.
Have Faith In Me ... Tough win from death seat.
Lazarus ... No words to describe ... superior.
Mark Purdon ... 5 winning drives, 4 winning training.
Barry Purdon / Zac Butcher ... 2 out of 2.
This was a feature Victorian programme totally dominated by New Zealanders ... The Faithful ??????

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:04 am

No Doctor Needed ( who The Faithful has beaten 5 out of the last 6 times they have met ) has now won 2 out of 2 at Menangle, the latest rating 1.50 something after working hard to get the lead and being headed in the straight and then fighting back to win. How long can we ignore the riches in Australia that are available to a horse like The Faithful?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:30 pm

No Doctor Needed is $1.15 fixed to win the first race at Menangle today. The Faithful has beaten No Doctor Needed five of the last 6 times that they have raced. This is a further indication that there is money to be made by good ATC horses in Australia. Major Star has made $46,000 in 6 months and is odds on favourite tonight at Ballarat and can be claimed for $25,000.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:25 am

That very game run by No Dr Needed did appear to overshadow The Faithfulls 4th placing at first glance but watching David Butcher in the straight he did not appear to drive him out very vigorously compared to those 2 on the outside of him.Whether that wasn't necessary or whether those couple of rough moments during the race drew a bit of caution by him I don't know but be great to know what he had to say after the race.He's known for looking after his horses so in no doubt he has done this here ,beating Lazarus over this distance with the run he had nigh impossible, just getting beat by Christen Me and the narrowest of margins by a No Dr Needed who put in the performance of his life well that's quite a performance in itself.Also wonder if he has much of a liking to racing this way round,Cambridge and NZ Metro not been overly great for him so far at least.Think he capable of a faster mile with the right circumstances but agree the longer distances his friend.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:10 pm

I must admit to being a bit disappointed as he had the perfect run and did not beat the death seat horse. His old sit and sprint ability seems diminished. What did the trainer and driver have to say?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:55 pm

A creditable run by Jack tonight.  He got a bit unbalanced a couple of times during the running and it would have been nice to see him finish third rather than fourth given the effort that he made - but that is realistically the fastest that he can run.  A mile is a bit short for him given the staying ability that he has shown in 2700 and now 3200 metre races. A strong determined racehorse is our Jack and a bit more distance would be his best friend.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Hughie Green scratched today together with Hug The Wind. We should now end up behind Lazarus at $1.60 a place. A further indication of what a nice horse The Faithful has developed into is that trottech selections has sandwiched him between two handy horses ... Lazarus and Christen Me. Surely Christen Me will not sit three back on the fence and wait for the sprint lane.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:35 pm

Barrier 1 looks good on paper but I fear they may go forward with Hughie Green, then hand up to Lazarus, leaving The Faithful 3 back,  Of course if Lazarus goes straight to the front we may be lucky and hold the trail, which would be the ideal.P.S. Hughie Green now scratched so that takes one further obstacle out of the way.

As to getting any favours, I don't see that happening  but the barrier draw does make it hard for the stablemates to position other than in the running line (s) which may work to our advantage.

There were no particularly enlightening comments on the Cup run but both trainer and driver said "good run- happy with that, on to the Flying Mile", as they sped off to their next engagement on a very busy night.

Barry Purdon has told Rob that he feels that Ideal Belle should be retired now and Rob has informed members by the phone message that a meeting of members will be arranged as soon as practicable to discuss the suggestion.


Last edited by barryf on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Faithful

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