The Faithful

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Sat May 28, 2016 3:28 pm

Welcome back Des!

The suggestion put forward at our recent meeting for Major Star's sale was for Ideal Belle to be offered for sale by way of tender ( should it be decided to terminate her racing career). This seems to be the fairest way, without having any later repercussions as to whether she was sold too cheaply.  Existing syndicate members have the opportunity like anyone else of forming their own group to lodge a tender.

I do not consider that asking a bloodstock agent to put a price on her to be the best method.  These agents are probably akin to valuers. who are skilled at telling you what a property is worth, after it has sold.  Or economists who, as they say, could not reach a conclusion if all stretched out in a line together.   The tender method was used earlier in regard to a previous ATC mare, Helena Kilena.

As to members having an opportunity to discuss matters among themselves, or with the Manager, I see such opportunities through the regular monthly meetings and for those not able to be present a letter to the Manager could open up that opportunity.

On a sombre note, I heard Craig Thompson say on Box Seat on Wednesday night that no horse has won at the Jewels from barrier 6. Thanks Craig!  But one can live in the hope that there is always the chance of a first time!

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat May 28, 2016 12:20 am

Food for thought ... As ideal Belle is owned by ATC 2012 they can decide what method is used if and when it is decided to retire her to the breeding barn. I would suggest a price put on her by a bloodstock agent and a meeting held to find out who wants to remain in and who wants to terminate. If the price was $40,000 and 20 people (40%) wished to remain in ... therefore 60% want out ..... 60% of $40,000 is $24,000 ... so the 20 members who wanted to stay in would need to collectively pay the $24,000 to buy out the others and the 20 would then own Ideal Belle. Of course the details of how the new breeding syndicate would run and who would make decisions as to sires and sale or keep the offspring etc would need to be nutted out. Depending on the expertise of the new group I imagine that most would be happy to be silent partners as we are now from a racing point of view. The ATC2012 syndicate would be terminated and the new group formed not under the banner of the ATC. I would hate it if Major Star wins the Interdominion and Ideal Belle's first foal sells for $100,000 and then goes on to be as good as her. ( I must apologise to The Faithful for using his heading and then talking about Ideal Belle ... sorry Jack. )

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri May 27, 2016 10:56 pm

Welcome back Des,
I fully agree with you about the free pass offered to the Australian invited horses. If they want to take part then they should have to come to NZ and win the required level of stakes to earn their way into the field.
As to the proposal that the ATC 2012 syndicate breed from Belle and race her progeny, as much as I like the idea it would never have legs as the syndicate rules don't allow this activity. The rules are fairly specific about racing horses, and does not mention breeding. People bought into the 2012 syndicate to race Belle and to incur costs serving Belle and maintaining her during the pregnancy would cause a legal nightmare if disgruntled members wanted out.
She will need to be sold to a syndicate of interested syndicate members or to another interested third party. God only knows how we are supposed to get a group of interested syndicate members together to discuss such a proposal as we have no means of contacting other syndicate members and no approved forum in which to discuss it. We are treated as mushrooms that are kept in the dark - and that seems to be the way that the syndicate management like it, if they didn't then they would have set up a discussion forum long before now. It has been indicated that a tender process will be used to sell Belle when that time comes and I will be interested to see how that tender process works as our syndicate manager has indicated that he is interested in purchasing her himself.

As regards Major Change it is noted that he has been scratched from the Cambridge amateur drivers race on Tuesday and will instead race in a strong workout at Pukekohe tomorrow against Jewel's bound competitors. I don't understand that logic, scratch him from an easier amateur race and race him against better graded Jewel's quality horses.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Fri May 27, 2016 10:31 pm

Hello again. Unfortunately my self imposed exile did not attract any new members to the blog site.
I agree with Ray in that Field Marshal can not be allowed to lead from the inside and so it could be very quick for a long time with the winner coming from behind.
The Harness Jewels lacks a lot of top NZ horses and only one Australian representative. Of the Australian horses that pulled out, two were unwell and two were suspect in terms of manners. Others may not have wanted to come all the way to NZ and run into Monbet or the Mark Purdon stable generally and the fillies in particular and also possibly draw a second row barrier around Cambridge. The NZ horses win when they travel and so there is little incentive for the Australians to travel to NZ just for the fun of being involved. The prize money for the day is substantial but individual race prize money is not enough for grand final races that they are advertised to be. Remember that the Breeders Crown series with heats and semi finals is not far away. I don't like the idea of a free pass for an Australian entry at the expense of a local horse. NZ horses do not get a free pass into Australian races.
Nike Franco won the $100,000 Queen Of Pacific race last week. Ideal Belle is / was a better horse and should not be lost to the ATC syndicate either as a racehorse or as a broodmare. Is it possible for the ATC 2012 to breed from her and race her offspring?
Major Change has had his time. We hold on to these horses too long and they should be turned over more quickly to enhance the chance of finding the champion that we all hope for.


Last edited by Des Carruthers on Sat May 28, 2016 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri May 27, 2016 9:31 pm

Yes the draw could certainly have been better, but it could have been worse also.
Talking with another trainer at Alex Park tonight they said that drawing 6 with other speed horses drawn inside of you may not be as bad as it sounds, especially if the better drawn speed merchants go hell for leather initially and you are able to tuck in behind with a bit of cover getting dragged along. A bit of cover in the one-one wouldn't be so bad.
Jack did it hard in his race tonight sitting parked but still ran on strongly and hit the line nicely finishing 4th just 1.3 lengths from the winner. He did a bit of work in the run and still finished ahead of the good horse Hug The Wind.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Fri May 27, 2016 4:33 pm

Not much luck again with Jack's barrier draw of 6 for the Jewels which is made worse by the fact that Field Marshall, Hug The Wind and My Kiwi Mate are all drawn inside him. Rolling Eyes

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Mon May 23, 2016 10:04 pm

I have received a telephone update from a fellow syndicate member regarding the workouts on Saturday (thank you) and I have followed this up with a viewing of the online video on the HRNZ website.
As it panned out the weather was not as bad at Pukekohe as I had anticipated, it was overcast but dry when the workout race took place.

Jack was driven by Sean Grayling and it seems that he was also a little surprised by Jack throwing in a couple of rough strides rounding the final bend. He quickly recovered and once balanced up he stomped home in behind the other two participants. Overall they were very happy with his efforts.

Jack races this Friday evening in a 1700m mobile race at Alexandra Park against some very good opposition, who are also tightening up in readiness for Jewels day. Due to the preferential draw nature of the race conditions Jack gets the plumb draw of number 1.
He is gifted this prime starting position – now he needs to step up and use it.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sun May 22, 2016 10:29 pm

Can anyone offer an insight into the efforts of Jack and Change at yesterday's workouts held at Pukekohe. The weather was awful where I was, north of Auckland, with heavy passing showers and some gale-force gusty winds. If you had the same conditions at Puke it would have made the going tough for the horses. Did they both handle the weather and track conditions and was Jacks run enough to bring him back towards his peak in two weeks time?
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 am

After a solid run and a respectable 6th placing in the Messenger I would assume that he will have an easy time over the next week or so and then have maybe one lead up race prior to the jewels.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:39 pm

We may be better served getting on to the back of Risk in the one wide line as Little Rascal (barrier 2 in front of Risk) has worked to the lead at each of his last two races in this class. It is a much better draw as it keeps The Faithful out of any early speed and presents the driver with many more options. Has the deal on Major Star gone through yet?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:28 pm

Another 2nd row draw. We must be saving up our good draw for the Jewels.

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What chance of Robbie Burns holding the lead and getting us to the passing lane?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:00 pm

I think that the scratchings make a huge difference as we will now get onto the back of Field Marshall. The four inside horses off the front will all prefer to go forward but none seem able to win from there with the pressure that will come. My Kiwi Mate, Hug The Wind and Bettor Spirits will all be behind The Faithful if they go back so perhaps one or more of those horses will also go forward. It should be a great race with loads of action and The Faithful is right in it.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:04 pm

Well  that shortens Jack's odds sllghtly- it's easier to beat 10 others than 12, particularly since one of the favourites is now out.

I presume Say My Name has gone amiss again as he  had a long period off prior to his recent reappearance.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:35 pm

ray the beancounter wrote:In the Group 1 Northern Derby at Alex Park on 6th March 2015 he drew number 15 but with the scratching of number 14 who was Hug The Wind then Jack started from barrier 14 which was the outside of the back row.  He still got up to finish 6th - but that was a 2700m race. The shorter distance of 1700m just made his chances a whole lot harder.
There was also a horse scratched off the front line in the Northern Derby leaving 13 starters.

Déjà vu.

No. 14 Sir Richie has been scratched and so has Say My Name off the front line. Cool

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:13 pm

Yes- food for thought. I would imagine that the remaining shares might go quic
kly should O K M win, or place well, in the forthcoming Group One's.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:07 pm

Not sure how many people have already realized this but My Kiwi Mate is the full brother to Cha Cha B that Brian Hughes is training for the new ATC 2017 syndicate.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:57 pm

In the stables after Jacks last race Zac made mention of the two Group 1's coming up in April, so yes I believe that the intention is to also line up in the Messenger on Friday week.

After the vote on the sale of Major Star last Saturday a few of the 2014 syndicate members stayed back and had a discussion with Rob about Major Change. There were several people that voiced a similar opinion that Change has reached his mark and quite often doesn't seem like he wants to be there. Rob advised that he has already begun looking for an offer to sell him, but hasn't received any interest as yet. One of the members suggested that maybe the breeder might want to buy him back. Razz

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:57 pm

It may not be as bad as it seems. My Kiwi Mate, Hug The Wind, Field Marshal, Bettor Spirits and any amount of others will need to work forward before it is too late so I can see a lot of pressure up front and even a three wide line for most of the race. Whoever gets the sweet run and can come late could get a major advantage in a really fast run race. If a favoured horse gets to the front, the others can't just sit back. Maybe it is time for stablemate Hug The Wind to return the favour from two starts ago. But then again, it may be as bad as it seems with The Faithful running the fastest final sectionals and finishing ninth. Hopefully we have saved our good barrier draw for the Jewels at Cambridge. Is The Faithful going to start in the Group 1 The Messenger next Friday?
Was there any discussion regarding Major Change at the Major Star vote?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:02 pm

In the Group 1 Northern Derby at Alex Park on 6th March 2015 he drew number 15 but with the scratching of number 14 who was Hug The Wind then Jack started from barrier 14 which was the outside of the back row.  He still got up to finish 6th - but that was a 2700m race. The shorter distance of 1700m just made his chances a whole lot harder.
There was also a horse scratched off the front line in the Northern Derby leaving 13 starters.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:41 pm

The visitor's draw for a non-visitor.

Snap! In his previous Group One race at the Park he drew 13 of 13!

Makes it hard over the sprint distance. Bash Head


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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:25 pm

Not exactly the draw we'd hoped for!!

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:46 pm

Jack looks to be thriving on racing and appeared ready to race again , if required, post race.  The Bettors Delight factor is kicking in when the whips are cracking.

Say My Name looms as a further threat after his comfortable win at Addington tonight where he showed good stamina to outpoint the Gore challenger. He impresses particularly as a staying type.
Hug The Wind very good again tonight and Risk o.k.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:21 pm

There were no steering issues with Jack tonight. Zac came out because Hughie simply wasn't going as well as him and he would have had to wait another 20m for the passing lane.

It was a very positive atmosphere down at the stables after the race. (which I guess you'd expect after running 2nd in a Group 3 race  Very Happy ) Zac commented that Jack is racing the best he's ever raced at the moment and that all we need is a good draw in the Group 1's for him to be right in it.

I personally thought it was a near perfect lead up to the Group 1 races. They ran a quick time and he didn't have to do work in the running.
Fingers crossed for the barrier draw for the Taylor Mile.  Fingers Crossed

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:53 pm

Very nice second by Jack tonight sitting in the trail behind Hughie Green.
Hughie was a bad failure of the race dropping out to the rear of the field coming down the straight. At first look it seemed puzzling as to why Zac pulled Jack out to go around Hughie Green rather than dive inwards and use the passing lane - but I do wonder if Zac had concerns about Hughie faltering and thus made a snap decision to get Jack out as quick as he could.
Either that or Jack was just being a little toerag and wouldn't steer as desired - which he has been prone to doing in the past - and steering right to the passing lane wasn't an option?
Second in a very good time in a Group 3 race is a nice workout for the Group 1 Taylor Mile......
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:22 pm

Des if Maurice McKendry were driving Hughie Green as would normally be the case then your scenario would almost have been a certainty as he would hold the lead at all cost. With Maurice hospitalised last week for a few days with an infection he is sidelined from driving duties this Friday night. Tony Herlihy takes the reins of Hughie Green instead and he is more of a possibility than Maurice to hand up the lead to someone like Hug the Wind, in order to use the sprint lane himself. I hope I am wrong as this would push Jack back to three back on the marker line - or be the sucker that has to be the sacrificial lamb sitting parked out.
Addendum: I have subsequently seen that Maurice McKendry is in fact driving this Friday evening but is doing so down at Addington , driving Shandale in the 3 yr old Derby hence his non-appearance at Alexandra Park.
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Re: The Faithful

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