The Faithful

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:32 am

Did I miss something,been wondering why the absence of The Faithful from the track lately and now seeing he won't be back until march ,has there been a problem after his last race,or is it just a lack of suitable races with all his good rivals absconding to Australia ,dam good move for them it certainly has been ! Sorry Des you have had to watch this while your one sits home,a bit painfull.
No one has quelled my curiosity since I said it be great to know what David Butcher had to say after his last race after a couple of rough steps and not being very vigorously driven out from my observations.Hope all good with him !

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:18 am

For those that do not have access to, or have not as yet caught up with, the phone message system...
There was a message placed on the system on Saturday by Rob advising that Jack's return to racing has been delayed and he will now not race until March 3rd at Auckland and then again on the 10th. On the 3rd there is a Group 3 1700m race and then on the 10th there is a Group 2 2200m Auckland Free-For-All. There will be a workout prior.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:25 am

Well Des, you're probably correct to an extent as many would prefer to watch their horses at home with all the social and equine contact which that involves, a bit like a sporting fan enjoying attending a home game.
Funding an overseas trip is a relevant issue.  The rules require stake monies to be paid out when they reach $10000 while a travel fund of $10000 is usually held from other funds built up from subscriptions but this would have had a large dent in it following the South Island trip. So there is probably not much left at the moment.  With a small ownership base it is much easier for the registered owner to cough up a few thousand to underwrite an overseas trip.
Syndicate horses have raced in Australia in the past, usually in races they have been entered for as yearlings or qualified for (e.g. Inter Dominions), generally these have been on a hit and run type basis, not as a prolonged trip.
All the main tracks in Australia are left handed, which doesn't help much.
As for Mr. Trump, well he is ensuring that the media is fully occupied and I understand that he was loved by his mother, when a child.
Good to read that a warm welcome awaits you in Iceland and New Zealand. When you visit you will find there are no snakes in either country.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:18 pm

At Melton today Rocker Band won a group 1 mares race. Hughie Green raced in the death seat and pulled away to win with comments like he will be the new top dog in Queensland where he is going to be based. Hug The Wind is 15/1 for the Hunter Cup. No Doctor Needed has won both his races at Menangle. These are the horses that The Faithful has been mixing it with yet there is a great reluctance from syndicate members to race overseas because of a desire to watch the races live.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:21 am

I have just watched the replays from the big meeting at Melton today. If anyone is in the slightest doubt about the absolute superiority if the NZ horses over the Australian horses then the replays show that it is no contest.
Rocker Band ... win from 3 back on the sprint lane.
Jacks Legend ... win from back in the field.
Vincent ... dominant win from the death seat.
Moto Meteor ... win from the sprint lane.
Sunny Ruby ... easy win from the sprint lane.
Have Faith In Me ... Tough win from death seat.
Lazarus ... No words to describe ... superior.
Mark Purdon ... 5 winning drives, 4 winning training.
Barry Purdon / Zac Butcher ... 2 out of 2.
This was a feature Victorian programme totally dominated by New Zealanders ... The Faithful ??????

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:04 am

No Doctor Needed ( who The Faithful has beaten 5 out of the last 6 times they have met ) has now won 2 out of 2 at Menangle, the latest rating 1.50 something after working hard to get the lead and being headed in the straight and then fighting back to win. How long can we ignore the riches in Australia that are available to a horse like The Faithful?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:30 pm

No Doctor Needed is $1.15 fixed to win the first race at Menangle today. The Faithful has beaten No Doctor Needed five of the last 6 times that they have raced. This is a further indication that there is money to be made by good ATC horses in Australia. Major Star has made $46,000 in 6 months and is odds on favourite tonight at Ballarat and can be claimed for $25,000.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:25 am

That very game run by No Dr Needed did appear to overshadow The Faithfulls 4th placing at first glance but watching David Butcher in the straight he did not appear to drive him out very vigorously compared to those 2 on the outside of him.Whether that wasn't necessary or whether those couple of rough moments during the race drew a bit of caution by him I don't know but be great to know what he had to say after the race.He's known for looking after his horses so in no doubt he has done this here ,beating Lazarus over this distance with the run he had nigh impossible, just getting beat by Christen Me and the narrowest of margins by a No Dr Needed who put in the performance of his life well that's quite a performance in itself.Also wonder if he has much of a liking to racing this way round,Cambridge and NZ Metro not been overly great for him so far at least.Think he capable of a faster mile with the right circumstances but agree the longer distances his friend.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:10 pm

I must admit to being a bit disappointed as he had the perfect run and did not beat the death seat horse. His old sit and sprint ability seems diminished. What did the trainer and driver have to say?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:55 pm

A creditable run by Jack tonight.  He got a bit unbalanced a couple of times during the running and it would have been nice to see him finish third rather than fourth given the effort that he made - but that is realistically the fastest that he can run.  A mile is a bit short for him given the staying ability that he has shown in 2700 and now 3200 metre races. A strong determined racehorse is our Jack and a bit more distance would be his best friend.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Hughie Green scratched today together with Hug The Wind. We should now end up behind Lazarus at $1.60 a place. A further indication of what a nice horse The Faithful has developed into is that trottech selections has sandwiched him between two handy horses ... Lazarus and Christen Me. Surely Christen Me will not sit three back on the fence and wait for the sprint lane.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:35 pm

Barrier 1 looks good on paper but I fear they may go forward with Hughie Green, then hand up to Lazarus, leaving The Faithful 3 back,  Of course if Lazarus goes straight to the front we may be lucky and hold the trail, which would be the ideal.P.S. Hughie Green now scratched so that takes one further obstacle out of the way.

As to getting any favours, I don't see that happening  but the barrier draw does make it hard for the stablemates to position other than in the running line (s) which may work to our advantage.

There were no particularly enlightening comments on the Cup run but both trainer and driver said "good run- happy with that, on to the Flying Mile", as they sped off to their next engagement on a very busy night.

Barry Purdon has told Rob that he feels that Ideal Belle should be retired now and Rob has informed members by the phone message that a meeting of members will be arranged as soon as practicable to discuss the suggestion.


Last edited by barryf on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:33 pm

Barrier 1 for The Faithful in the big sprint race on Friday. What did the trainer and driver say about his Auckland Cup run?
This Friday The Faithful begins well and hands up to Lazarus ... not to Hughie Green. Every other horse in the race will now lose unless they get up there mid race so hopefully there is plenty of pressure. I know that team driving does not exist Twisted Evil but The Faithful has two stable mates who owe him favours for the protection that he has given to them in past races. A slow race and we can run second. A quick race and we can cause an upset. What is happening with Ideal Belle ... race on or retire?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:50 pm

Tiger Tara ran second in the NZ Cup winning over $100,000. In the Auckland Cup he raced in a trail all the way yet The Faithful gave him 9 lengths start at the two laps mark, two lengths on the home turn, did not pull out until late in the straight ????? yet finished a diminishing half length behind him at the finish. Hug The Wind had the run behind the leader and pulled out at the top of the straight providing the run for the third placed horse who also had a great run throughout. Apart from the winner, I believe that The Faithful was the run of the race and must be rated in the best few horses trained on the North Island.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:41 am

It certainly was an exceptional run and his finishing burst in the straight was exhilirating to watch, which I did from track level. He was going so fast I expected to hear a bang as he broke the sound barrier!  In the process he became ATC Syndicates' fastest ever 3200 metres horse but being unplaced the time will not be recognised.

David Butcher gave him good shelter in the early part when the pace was frantic and this enabled him to come on strong when the leaders were wilting near the finish.

I believe a contest with Lazarus is imminent,which will be a further character test!

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:47 am

A great performance today,race run in record time yet he was finishing it of so well,you's sure should be proud of that run.Bodes well for the future.Sure can help to have some luck in these big races,will come sometime.
Awesome win though by Dream About Me ,what a mare,would love to be on track when she eventually meets Lazarus .

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:39 pm

What a brilliant brilliant run by Jack in the Auckland Cup. It was a classy drive by David Butcher and even after running 3000 metres he still put in his usual determined sprint for the finish line. He is a true genuine racehorse and it would have to be one of the proudest non-winning performances that I have been associated with.
Jack it is time that you had a bit of luck run your way and that you won a major race - it will come.....
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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:00 am

Great to see The Faithful has made the cup field,good luck !.A surprise to see the change of driver,hard to see Zac making that choice himself but anyway all should be good with that.All Stars gonna be hard to beat but anything can happen so fingers crossed, a bit of luck could help and even a placing in this would be a good result ,a good field and maybe thank goodness no Lazarus.
Brent Mangos on Ideal Belle also a surprise,that points to me they going for the lead but not sure that will be easy to get so going to be interesting how things turn out,Zac on Mo Casino,wonder whats going on ,whatever hope Belle benefits from the change.Tough field though so not gonna be a much easier race for her afterall.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Good to see David Butcher aboard for the Cup.  A driver of his ability should not be sitting in the stand for a Group One event.  Elsu, Changeover, Tintin in America etc.etc. - all benefited from his presence.

As for Belle, well she might be in for a tough night, with the odd reminder of what racing is all about.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:52 pm

...and the answer to who will drive The Faithful in the Auckland Cup is...... David Butcher!?

While I have no concern over David Butcher's quality as a driver I am surprised that they have gone with someone who's never driven Jack before in a $250k Group 1 race that we've been targetting for a couple of months now. Surely he should have been given the drive in a lead up race if they were planning to give him the drive in the Cup.

I also notice that Ideal Belle is now to be driven by Brent Mangos. If you've read my previous posts about Belle you would know that I am actually pleased to see a change of driver for her, but am surprised that the main stable driver (Zac) is driving a horse for another stable rather than driving Belle!? Is this a planned change of tactics or a show of no faith by Zac?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:12 am

A good result for us in the Futurity with none of the aforementioned horses finishing in the money.
There are now only 15 nominations remaining for the Auckland Cup so I'm feeling much more confident of Jack getting a start.
The question for me now is who is going to drive him?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:07 pm

Now down to 18 noms for the Cup with Ideal Belle and Locharburn both having been officially withdrawn.
This will move The Faithful up one spot in the ratings order, however Bettor B Amazed, Bettor Spirits and Shandale all line up in the Futurity at Cambridge on Xmas Eve so the result of this race could determine whether Jack makes the Cup field or not.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by geejay on Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:47 pm

Not bringing him out to park virtually a case for not giving your horse every chance,have often seen stewards query such .Being a horse that can sit parked makes the decision worse especially considering he needs to advance up the ladder to get into the cup.Not giving him a gutbuster ok but unfortunately his fast sectionals point to an error in judgement by Zac, a shame but that's racing I guess.
Surely every effort will be given to make the cup,luck hasn't been shining on him lately but looking forward to that changing and finding out just what he is really capable of.Good luck ! cheers

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:08 pm

I am also concerned about whether Jack will make the Auckland Cup field or not and disappointed that he wasn't put in the race last night to give himself a chance of automatic qualification.

As it stands on the TAB website there are still 20 nominations for the Auckland Cup. I place him at either 14th or 15th equal on ratings as he dropped a point last night down to 94. He's on par in the ratings with Better B Amazed who also dropped to 94 last night and rated ahead of Bettor Spirits (93), Shandale (89), Ideal Belle (86) and Fleeting Grin (72). The horse I'm unsure of is Classie Brigade who is a C5 but doesn't have a North Island rating at this stage. The field limit at Alex Park according to the HRNZ website is 14 so he's right on the edge of making the field based on ratings.

It's hard not to be pleased with his effort last night making up ground on the 5 very good horses that finished in front of him.
Apparently Zac said to one of the members that Jack wasn't ready for a gut buster tonight, which explains why he didn't come out to sit parked with a lap and a half to go when he had the chance, but makes me question why he wasn't driven a little more positively early on to try and hold either the lead or the trail.

I'm unsure whether there is any intention to race him again before New Year's Eve to try and improve his rating, but I'll be very unimpressed if he doesn't have another start and doesn't make the Cup field.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:48 pm

The Faithful ran the fastest last 1/4 and 1/2 and was quicker in each of his last three quarters than winner and favourite for the Auckland Cup, Titan Banner. Based on that he should be in the field for the cup. How many times has The Faithful produced the top times over the final quarters yet, due to circumstances of the draw and the way the race was run, finished midfield? The Faithful has beaten No Doctor Needed on each of the last four times that they have met yet No Doctor Needed is $21 for the Auckland Cup.

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Re: The Faithful

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