The Faithful

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:59 pm

Des I will do my best to keep you updated with any tidbits of information that I garner in between the publication of the monthly newsletters.
Yes there are very good viewing numbers on the forums but as for it being an open forum I will only be happy when the blogs existence is made available to all syndicate members and we have 100-150+ members signed up.
I have some truly good friends in the syndicates and they keep me updated on most issues - for instance it was confirmed to me yesterday that Jack is now to have a spell, as would have been anticipated after the Jewels and after his long campaign. A resumption date was indicated to me but to be honest it has been a very busy weekend with much vodka consumed and I cannot quite remember the detail of this resumption (it was some time in the new racing year). It is my 50th tomorrow and we had a 12 hr long BBQ yesterday - the photos towards the end of the night in grass skirts and coconut bra's indicate the direction the evening progressed.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:45 pm

I am immune to the mood of the various syndicates as the only time that I see fellow members is when you are all celebrating on the track after a win. I really enjoy the syndicates and have absolutely no negative thoughts regarding them (except the idea of selling Ideal Belle)however I have an insatiable thirst for all things pacing (don't care much for trotters) and in lieu of conversation with fellow members, the monthly news letters (which I think are great) are my main source of information along with this blogsite. I guess that we do have an open forum in place, it is just that most members chose not to contribute, however the numbers suggest that the views of the regular contributers are well monitored.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:09 pm

Yeah, sorry Des, just venting my frustration.
I just think of how much better the morale of the syndicates could be with an open discussion forum in place - I believe that I am correct in thinking that you are of the same opinion.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:43 pm

I think that I may have touched a nerve ... sorry ray the beancounter. Also sorry to hear that you may terminate after the ATC 2017 runs its course. Let's hope that we can all have a lot of fun in the meantime and a big win or two, with Ideal Belle (the racehorse), The Faithful (sit and sprint champion), Bettors Pocket (next years Country Cup) and several of the currently unknown ability group from ATC 2016 and ATC 2017.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:29 pm

Des it will be a matter of having to wait for our monthly newsletter for us to be told what they want us to know.

Going from past experiences advised by other syndicate members Barry Purdon has not been one to communicate unnecessarily with us mere plebs and has been known to shun requests for information and advises that all information will only be provided to the syndicate manager.

Some trainers are good communicators and others leave a lot to be desired in this regard. One of the most approachable and friendly trainers that I have come across in the syndicates has been Brent Mangos, friendly approachable and willing to discuss a syndicate horse with any interested syndicate member.

Rob will firstly not support any contact being made with trainers and secondly will not agree to any communique from a trainer being published on a blog. We are mushrooms that must be kept in the dark, to be provided only with the authorised information that we are officially provided with, in the “official communication channels”.

I have tried to improve the communication channels available to syndicate members but I am sick of hitting my head against a brick wall.
It was me that pushed to have a voluntary syndicate contact list circulated to the 2010 and 2012 syndicate members. The uptake from syndicate members to provide their contact details was lukewarm at best. Our syndicate manager has not offered to circulate any similar contact register to the 2013, 2014, 2016 or 2017 syndicate members. That really says it all in regard to the syndicate management opinion, approach and policy on encouraging communication between members. I have also suggested the online blog to Rob Carr to encourage syndicate member communication – this was also declined.

It is due to this tiresome approach of providing one-way communication and active discouragement of communication between syndicate members that my participation in the syndicates ends with the 2017 syndicate. Yes the horses from that syndicate will likely be around for 4 years or so (with luck), but that will be the end of my involvement – I have become yet another disillusioned member and there are several of them floating around currently.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:17 pm

Take a look at The Faithful running in the Jewels both this year and last year. For a sit sprint horse, the lack of luck (no fault of the driver) is amazing together with the poor barrier draws in the Messenger and Taylor Mile. The Faithful has been up for a long time. Does anyone know if he is heading for a spell or racing on? He is more than paying his way and giving his owners some exciting racing including three recent Group 1 events. I am certainly glad that he was not sold when we had that offer. How are Ideal Belle and Miss Kitty going? There is no mention of them on the Barry Purdon website. Perhaps a new direction for this blog could be to invite Barry Purdon to write a more detailed summary and opinion on the three syndicate horses that he trains including possible races to target. He could email it to one of our contributors who could then deliver it to the blog. This may need to be run past the syndicate manager in case we would be overstepping the mark in making contact with the trainers. Members who are in all four current syndicates are making a substantial monetary contribution per year and in my opinion it doesn't seem a lot to ask.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:31 am

ray the beancounter wrote: he either has crap draws to contend with or strikes interference in the running.

....or both.

I also thought he looked to be traveling really well when Zac hooked him out 4 wide to make a run, which he obviously wouldn't have done if he wasn't traveling well. The camera lost sight of him after the check so I'm not sure how much he was asked to do in the home straight, but he clearly would have finished a lot closer without the interference.
I didn't put any expectations on him after I saw the barrier draw, but while I am mildly disappointed with the result, I am quite pleased with Jack's performance in the circumstances.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:35 pm

I seriously thought that Jack would finish in the first 5 and without the interference on the corner that was a realistic expectation.
Just how unlucky can any horse be when it comes to Group 1 races - he either has crap draws to contend with or strikes interference in the running.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:55 pm

And despite everything, including being eased to the line, he still ran 1 min 56.7 for the 1609m. How fast could he go on the rail at Menangle? Roll on next year's Miracle Mile ... or am I thinking about Ideal Belle ... or Major Star for his new owners?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:46 pm

I see he was mentioned in the Stewards 'Report in that he was carried wide and took evasive action when Hug The Wind weakened and broke.

I thought he was travelling quite well to that stage and would have finished a lot closer without that hindrance.


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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:35 pm

Victim of barrier and circumstances including interference on the home turn but how wide can you get without endangering the public? Still we must be patient and wait for some luck because if we had swapped barriers with Usain Colt today, I think that we would have won the Jewels. The Faithful has now earned in excess of $100,000.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:52 pm

Good luck to all the loyal supporters venturing to Cambridge on Saturday

The school soccer game I was going to is not now on so will watch it all on Trackside with some regular refreshments and a few first fours as a financial interest.

A small wager on Jack at $71 and $11 looks tempting too! Harness Dancing Banana

P.S. Cannot believe Risk at $101 & $14- worth a look too.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue May 31, 2016 4:14 pm

Zac is now listed as Jack's driver for the Jewels on the HRNZ website.  Smile

Interestingly Tony Herlihy is listed as the driver for My Kiwi Mate and also still as the trainer for the emergency Hank Bromac. I assume if there was a scratching and Hank Bromac made the field Tony would either need to change drives or sign over the training the rights to someone else?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat May 28, 2016 6:16 pm

Regarding the Harness Jewels 4yo colts and geldings it is interesting to note that Franco Texas (barrier 4) finished lower in the final rankings than Bettors Pocket. I wonder if Zac Butcher will stick with The Faithful or get behind Hug The Wind. Little Rascal (barrier 2) could make a bid to lead. My Kiwi Mate must go forward as should Hug The Wind so gaps could appear if the back row don't push up behind them too quickly. The Faithful can win from barrier 6 provided Field Marshal does not lead but it will take the drive of the century to do it.

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Re: The Faithful

Post by barryf on Sat May 28, 2016 3:28 pm

Welcome back Des!

The suggestion put forward at our recent meeting for Major Star's sale was for Ideal Belle to be offered for sale by way of tender ( should it be decided to terminate her racing career). This seems to be the fairest way, without having any later repercussions as to whether she was sold too cheaply.  Existing syndicate members have the opportunity like anyone else of forming their own group to lodge a tender.

I do not consider that asking a bloodstock agent to put a price on her to be the best method.  These agents are probably akin to valuers. who are skilled at telling you what a property is worth, after it has sold.  Or economists who, as they say, could not reach a conclusion if all stretched out in a line together.   The tender method was used earlier in regard to a previous ATC mare, Helena Kilena.

As to members having an opportunity to discuss matters among themselves, or with the Manager, I see such opportunities through the regular monthly meetings and for those not able to be present a letter to the Manager could open up that opportunity.

On a sombre note, I heard Craig Thompson say on Box Seat on Wednesday night that no horse has won at the Jewels from barrier 6. Thanks Craig!  But one can live in the hope that there is always the chance of a first time!

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat May 28, 2016 12:20 am

Food for thought ... As ideal Belle is owned by ATC 2012 they can decide what method is used if and when it is decided to retire her to the breeding barn. I would suggest a price put on her by a bloodstock agent and a meeting held to find out who wants to remain in and who wants to terminate. If the price was $40,000 and 20 people (40%) wished to remain in ... therefore 60% want out ..... 60% of $40,000 is $24,000 ... so the 20 members who wanted to stay in would need to collectively pay the $24,000 to buy out the others and the 20 would then own Ideal Belle. Of course the details of how the new breeding syndicate would run and who would make decisions as to sires and sale or keep the offspring etc would need to be nutted out. Depending on the expertise of the new group I imagine that most would be happy to be silent partners as we are now from a racing point of view. The ATC2012 syndicate would be terminated and the new group formed not under the banner of the ATC. I would hate it if Major Star wins the Interdominion and Ideal Belle's first foal sells for $100,000 and then goes on to be as good as her. ( I must apologise to The Faithful for using his heading and then talking about Ideal Belle ... sorry Jack. )

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri May 27, 2016 10:56 pm

Welcome back Des,
I fully agree with you about the free pass offered to the Australian invited horses. If they want to take part then they should have to come to NZ and win the required level of stakes to earn their way into the field.
As to the proposal that the ATC 2012 syndicate breed from Belle and race her progeny, as much as I like the idea it would never have legs as the syndicate rules don't allow this activity. The rules are fairly specific about racing horses, and does not mention breeding. People bought into the 2012 syndicate to race Belle and to incur costs serving Belle and maintaining her during the pregnancy would cause a legal nightmare if disgruntled members wanted out.
She will need to be sold to a syndicate of interested syndicate members or to another interested third party. God only knows how we are supposed to get a group of interested syndicate members together to discuss such a proposal as we have no means of contacting other syndicate members and no approved forum in which to discuss it. We are treated as mushrooms that are kept in the dark - and that seems to be the way that the syndicate management like it, if they didn't then they would have set up a discussion forum long before now. It has been indicated that a tender process will be used to sell Belle when that time comes and I will be interested to see how that tender process works as our syndicate manager has indicated that he is interested in purchasing her himself.

As regards Major Change it is noted that he has been scratched from the Cambridge amateur drivers race on Tuesday and will instead race in a strong workout at Pukekohe tomorrow against Jewel's bound competitors. I don't understand that logic, scratch him from an easier amateur race and race him against better graded Jewel's quality horses.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Fri May 27, 2016 10:31 pm

Hello again. Unfortunately my self imposed exile did not attract any new members to the blog site.
I agree with Ray in that Field Marshal can not be allowed to lead from the inside and so it could be very quick for a long time with the winner coming from behind.
The Harness Jewels lacks a lot of top NZ horses and only one Australian representative. Of the Australian horses that pulled out, two were unwell and two were suspect in terms of manners. Others may not have wanted to come all the way to NZ and run into Monbet or the Mark Purdon stable generally and the fillies in particular and also possibly draw a second row barrier around Cambridge. The NZ horses win when they travel and so there is little incentive for the Australians to travel to NZ just for the fun of being involved. The prize money for the day is substantial but individual race prize money is not enough for grand final races that they are advertised to be. Remember that the Breeders Crown series with heats and semi finals is not far away. I don't like the idea of a free pass for an Australian entry at the expense of a local horse. NZ horses do not get a free pass into Australian races.
Nike Franco won the $100,000 Queen Of Pacific race last week. Ideal Belle is / was a better horse and should not be lost to the ATC syndicate either as a racehorse or as a broodmare. Is it possible for the ATC 2012 to breed from her and race her offspring?
Major Change has had his time. We hold on to these horses too long and they should be turned over more quickly to enhance the chance of finding the champion that we all hope for.


Last edited by Des Carruthers on Sat May 28, 2016 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri May 27, 2016 9:31 pm

Yes the draw could certainly have been better, but it could have been worse also.
Talking with another trainer at Alex Park tonight they said that drawing 6 with other speed horses drawn inside of you may not be as bad as it sounds, especially if the better drawn speed merchants go hell for leather initially and you are able to tuck in behind with a bit of cover getting dragged along. A bit of cover in the one-one wouldn't be so bad.
Jack did it hard in his race tonight sitting parked but still ran on strongly and hit the line nicely finishing 4th just 1.3 lengths from the winner. He did a bit of work in the run and still finished ahead of the good horse Hug The Wind.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Fri May 27, 2016 4:33 pm

Not much luck again with Jack's barrier draw of 6 for the Jewels which is made worse by the fact that Field Marshall, Hug The Wind and My Kiwi Mate are all drawn inside him. Rolling Eyes

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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Mon May 23, 2016 10:04 pm

I have received a telephone update from a fellow syndicate member regarding the workouts on Saturday (thank you) and I have followed this up with a viewing of the online video on the HRNZ website.
As it panned out the weather was not as bad at Pukekohe as I had anticipated, it was overcast but dry when the workout race took place.

Jack was driven by Sean Grayling and it seems that he was also a little surprised by Jack throwing in a couple of rough strides rounding the final bend. He quickly recovered and once balanced up he stomped home in behind the other two participants. Overall they were very happy with his efforts.

Jack races this Friday evening in a 1700m mobile race at Alexandra Park against some very good opposition, who are also tightening up in readiness for Jewels day. Due to the preferential draw nature of the race conditions Jack gets the plumb draw of number 1.
He is gifted this prime starting position – now he needs to step up and use it.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Sun May 22, 2016 10:29 pm

Can anyone offer an insight into the efforts of Jack and Change at yesterday's workouts held at Pukekohe. The weather was awful where I was, north of Auckland, with heavy passing showers and some gale-force gusty winds. If you had the same conditions at Puke it would have made the going tough for the horses. Did they both handle the weather and track conditions and was Jacks run enough to bring him back towards his peak in two weeks time?
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Re: The Faithful

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 am

After a solid run and a respectable 6th placing in the Messenger I would assume that he will have an easy time over the next week or so and then have maybe one lead up race prior to the jewels.
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Re: The Faithful

Post by Des Carruthers on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:39 pm

We may be better served getting on to the back of Risk in the one wide line as Little Rascal (barrier 2 in front of Risk) has worked to the lead at each of his last two races in this class. It is a much better draw as it keeps The Faithful out of any early speed and presents the driver with many more options. Has the deal on Major Star gone through yet?

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Re: The Faithful

Post by Conwell on Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:28 pm

Another 2nd row draw. We must be saving up our good draw for the Jewels.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What chance of Robbie Burns holding the lead and getting us to the passing lane?

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