Ideal Belle (AGM)

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by geejay on Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:20 pm

Agree was an odd tactic at the start not to make an effort to secure the lead  scratch  ,with her overracing now a well known problem and with the likelyhood of Dream About Me coming knocking with the first opportunity then getting the race going at a good clip was probably the only chance of MarkP holding back.But letting Rocker Band ,who never leads all the way,take the early lead was like shooting yourself in the foot and a great invitation for the favourite to come around.When she easily took over it seemed like everyone accepted then that the race was only for second ,that 65 half was a joke,contest over !Coffee Time
As for her overracing , I admit I haven't a clue what can be done to overcome that but these top drivers have all kinds of tricks up their sleeves,Dexter Dunn the master so curious to know how he would go behind her. The art of putting their mounts at ease a closely guarded secret no doubt.
These walk-run races are so frustrating and far too prevalent for my liking,is one thing when a horse has to work hard to get the lead then takes a spell but getting an easy lead then crawling along is a nightmare when no one is prepared to do something about it.Often hard to understand how so many drivers just sit in the breeze when they know full well their horse can't do that,can only wait so long for cover to come round so why not then at least try your luck and make a decent go for the lead,you gonna lose anyway if you don't try.Twisted Evil Admit that's my frustrated punters view rather than one of any knowledge of driving a horse !
Would added bonus's when the winning time gets within a set mark or breaks a record or something make these races more of a contest and maybe more exciting ?.
With Belle's syndicate my first and only one I am not anxious to see Belle retired but am not a fan of her going grass racing,keep thinking of Major Change starting out so well on the grass then ending losing the plot completely later on and then our Major Star going from a NZ Cup hopeful to grass track slogger to "losing his old speed"(OR NOT !!!) all within a few months.Yeah Right
Cambridge worth a try though her Addington runs a huge highlight for me,hmmmm wonder if Barry's brother down south would be interested in trying his magic with her.Ah ,thats probably the brightest idea I have had so far !!!!!!!  Cheers That idea of convincing the ATC to change it's no transferring to an Auss stable stance a very bright idea too though not from me,would be an exciting change though and a big drawcard for these syndicates. Fingers Crossed

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Conwell on Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:22 pm

I would rather see her retired than racing on the grass. I'm also not particularly keen on her racing in lesser grades but something needs to change if we are gong to continue racing her until closer to the next breeding season.
Personally I think a change of driving tactics and/or driver is required because this sit and sprint nonsense is not her go. I rewatched the race from last night and she didn't appear to be rushed out of the gate and once crossed by Rockerband we were at the mercy of the pattern of the race which ended up being a 65 first half and a 55 last half. Once again the stipe's report says that she over-raced in the mid stages so I don't know why she is repeatedly being driven in that manner.
I've said before that she needs to be out rolling in front putting together some good sectionals at her own rate rather than relying on the tempo of the race her go her way.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by barryf on Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:20 am

If the timing was suitable  for the next breeding season I would say retire her and go to tender.
However as it isn't it is worth trying to find an easier race for her as it is only 2 months back when she ran second in the Holmes DG and beat the horses which are beating her now.
I would also suggest a change of driver to get a different view as to where she is at. Depending on availability I would try A.G. Herlihy, D Butcher, M.Purdon, D Dunn, S Grayling or J Abernethy ,most of whom have had a connection with Belle in the past.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:22 am

Retire

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:11 pm

Barry Purdon and Rob Carr had bit of a conflab after the race and they are still trying to come to the conclusion that most of us have already reached - Belle doesn't want to be there.......
In Barry's words Belle just battled up the straight.
If she comes through this race okay then they are considering nominating Belle for the Alexandra Park meeting next week on Thursday 22nd December. There is a 2200 metre handicap stand race and the powers that be are hoping that it will attract a lower grade of horse than she raced tonight. They may nominate and then make a call on a start after seeing who else she will be up against.

I understand that recently there was even the possibility raised of racing at Cambridge or, believe it or not, racing on grass over summer. I understand that syndicate members showed little interest in the grass track option and would rather see her retired.
This is starting to sound like a face-saving exercise. Having persevered as long as they have Belle has now missed this years breeding season, so is it in the horses best interest to down grade her to a lesser Auckland meeting, or to a Cambridge meeting, or to a grass track meeting, just to get a win which would justify racing her on.
Opinions please....
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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Des Carruthers on Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:07 pm

All contributors seem to still be enjoying watching Major Star compete in Melbourne without being on course. On Friday he earned $10,000 against a moderate lot yet we do not seem to entertain the thought of sending The Faithful to Melbourne. Look at the field that The Faithful is up against on Friday. I have not seen any of the syndicate horses live yet have thoroughly enjoyed watching them on television. Whilst I understand that members would rather be on course, we still have horses running, and yet to run, in Auckland ... so why not get a conversation started about giving The Faithful a chance to show his ability, and will to win, in a more financially viable situation with us still as owners. Rob Carr is stepping down so maybe a new direction for some horses could be on the cards. I don't want to see The Faithful reach his mark and go the way of Major Change.
Last time in, Bettors Pocket was following the same progressive trail as The Faithful. I have said before that they were the two most under rated horses in Auckland so hopefully this time in, Bettors Pocket can join The Faithful as the most improved horses in Auckland.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by geejay on Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:24 pm

Thanks Conwell for that report of Belle after her race,been waiting anxiously for word from someone who was on course or had heard word from BarryP .Will take your observation " she appeared to take a while to get her breath back in the stables  so expecting she'll take some benefit from the run" as being a sign that is a ray of hope that all is not lost.
Queen Of Hearts been the mission ,BarryP something up his sleeve ??? ,whatever, happy to share in your optimism Smile for a place.
Dream About Me ,dam so good !Yep Barryf as you say "anytime there is a reasonable stake on offer you have to take on the South Island raiders or age group winners which have graduated to the next level" Very tough could be replaced perhaps with "almost impossible" with the all conquering All Star's ,the Dalgety and Dunn stables.A better distribution of the stakes would be a big help for those not so rich but so necessary owners that contribute so much to these races only to receive small proportions of the stakes relative to first placing.
Have watched Star's race a few times now,he just looks so good in this race,great description "he looked grand striding around with his tail and mane swishing in the breeze".Was striding out so well reminded me of his free-legged days,have they let out the hobbles a notch or two or what magic has Gath worked on him,whatever great to see albeit it pains me that we don't own him anymore ! Sad Sad Sad  Keep that tail swishing Star !

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:26 am

An extraordinary run by Star.
The driver would not have been too impressed by the flicking tail, if you have a look at the start of the race you will see that his tail was tied down at the start of the race but by the first bend it had come loose. He has a short cropped tail which must be a bit more difficult to secure.
Hey, if he likes a loose tail and runs better with it loose, then leave it loose.
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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Conwell on Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:27 am

While Belle's run last Friday night was on the worse side of average, she appeared to take a while to get her breath back in the stables so I'm expecting she'll take some benefit from the run.
While she's realistically not a winning chance (is anyone other than Dream About Me?) I'm happy to see her take her place in the Queen of Hearts after having to pull out last year due to injury.
I see she has drawn the ace for this Group 1 event so she shouldn't have to cover any extra ground and I still give her an outside chance of running a place. (optimistic I know  Wink )

Also, very pleasing to see Major Star back performing to his best. Didn't he look grand striding around with his tail and mane swishing in the breeze. king

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by barryf on Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:50 am

Good news- Star recaptured the old speed and fluency of action at Melton on Friday night in the manner of the horse when at his best.

Can he continue to perform like that? Wait and see I guess.

Bad news- His potential sale price just doubled!

The opportuniies to race against horses at his level in Australia are just so much greater than in Auckland where anytime there is a reasonable stake on offer you have to take on the South Island raiders or age group winners which have graduated to the next level. Very tough.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by geejay on Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:17 pm

Des Carruthers wrote:After Friday's racing it looks like we should retire and sell Ideal Belle as a broodmare and use the proceeds to buy back Major Star. He led all the way at Melton rating 1.53.5 and running away from the opposition and eased down over the final 100m to win by 10m. Not bad for a horse that has lost it's speed.
With you 100% there Des ,sadly does look like Belle not quite up to it anymore though would give anything to hear they have found a problem with her that could be quickly fixed.
Major Star sure looked good in his win ,http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=vic&raceCode=MXM09121601 , and his,horse that has lost it's speed, time just .3 from his best when 2nd in the jewels.
Track Rating: GOOD Gross Time: 2:01:3 Mile Rate: 1:53:5 Lead Time: 7.2
First Quarter: 29.0 Second Quarter: 30.1 Third Quarter: 27.3 Fourth Quarter: 27.7 ,
Buy him back please !!!! Smile

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:52 pm

After Friday's racing it looks like we should retire and sell Ideal Belle as a broodmare and use the proceeds to buy back Major Star. He led all the way at Melton rating 1.53.5 and running away from the opposition and eased down over the final 100m to win by 10m. Not bad for a horse that has lost it's speed.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by barryf on Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 am

Sadly, Belle's best days are clearly behind her and she just cannot pull out the finishing zip needed to compete at her present level.

The promise she showed in her come back workouts hasn't been fulfilled so it's time to move on to other things .

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:01 pm

Belle ran a time of 2:41.8 for the 2200 metres which on any other ordinary race night would be very respectable, but tonight when she is racing against the better quality horses it placed her 8th out of 8.
Should she be lined up in the Queen of Hearts? - if you want my opinion then no I don't think that she should.
She had very chance tonight and showed that she can no longer do it. Don't just line her up for the sake of it - that is demoralising for the owners and more importantly for the champion racehorse that we own.
I see that The Faithful is at the workouts tomorrow in readiness for his return to the racetrack next Friday at Alexandra Park. It also will not be too long before we see some of the 2017 babies at the workouts which will be watched with a great deal of interest.
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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by geejay on Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:36 pm

Anybody attend the workouts yesterday ?.Hard to know what to make of Belle's run , last bit was run home pretty fast by look of things and didn´t look like Belle was pushed much so hopefully all good.Little surprised to see BarryP drove Rocker Band instead of Belle with Jakob Wallace on her while Zac took Ardens Choice.Did that mean he as has no questions to be answered with Belle's condition and just wanted a quiet run from her,hope so.
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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by geejay on Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:40 pm

No denying that was a disappointing effort by Belle,would be good to hear what BarryP has to say,especially as he drove her though I see stewards report she over-raced when restrained to trail so thats surely a big contributor.May be a little hasty speaking of retirement after really just one real poor run.Been a bit of a concern the fast times she has had to put in on her return to racing,flatened her ??, but at least they show she still has speed just a question of stamina perhaps.Her overacing maybe the biggest problem so maybe right bowling along out front best for her,possibly Barry's mistake giving up the lead.Her best early races were following the likes of Raksdeal on a very fast pace,hard to find horses like that these days, the reach the lead then crawl along and sprint home so prevalent unfortunately.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Conwell on Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:18 am

I thought she looked a little flat tonight backing up for the 3rd week in a row. I also couldn't understand why you would hand up the lead over 1700m unless you were 100% sure that you would keep the trail. For a horse who has a habit of getting keen during the running, 3 back on the markers is a terrible spot to be. She is not a sit sprint horse and needs to be rolling in front to be able to put a few good sectionals together. (ie the Holmes DG)

The Queen of Hearts is in 4 weeks time. Give her her chance and then retire her.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:41 am

I am happy to retire her now as she has given us some major thrills and I don't want to see her struggle. Trainer and manager to decide as usual and I will support their decision.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by barryf on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:58 pm

I didn't see anything in her run tonight to indicate that she is progressing- rather the opposite, and in this class there are no easy pickings.

The promise she showed in the early stages of her campaign is not being fulfilled.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by ray the beancounter on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:12 pm

Well she didn't break tonight so that is a positive. But that is where the positives probably end for Belle. She doesn't look even remotely like winning a race at the moment.

I am going to say what a lot of you probably don't want to hear - she should be retired to the broodmare paddock........
She does not have the speed or ability that she had as a younger horse and continuing to race her in the remote hope that she will reignite her youthful abilities is foolish.
Your opinions??
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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by ray the beancounter on Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:00 am

Barry had a first hand experience with Belle on Friday and it is noted from the phone message system that Barry can offer no explanation for Belle breaking in the manner that she did.
Belle is old enough and clever enough to let us know when she has had enough of something. If it were to happen again then maybe we should be listening.......
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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by barryf on Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:15 pm

Barry Purdon unable to offer an explanation for the breaking so looks like a case of "turn the page".  My impression was that she had to work hard to bring the others up to the 2 leaders, then got shuffled to the back when the others came forward, so maybe a case of equine frustration.  Looked ok afterwards though breathing strongly for a short time afterwards.

The Faithful put in his best Addington effort with the fastest net time in the race but was reported to have cross fired again, under pressure. The track was a little shifty, according to a comment from a prominent driver to our manager, which may have had an influence too.  Apart from a couple of small scratches he was said to be ok.

Hopefully nothing happened to affect both horses ability to race at Auckland over the forthcoming carnival.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Des Carruthers on Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:15 pm

Double disappointment yesterday. No luck again for The Faithful and pacing roughly again. Ideal Belle breaking when in a position to run home well. Is everything ok with both horses and are future plans up in the air? I see that Aliante has been injured so the B. Purdon stable is not having much luck at the top end.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by barryf on Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:28 am

I don't like being a pessimist but I had a look at his last race at Addington which reminded me how awful it was.

He is so good at Epsom but just mediocre elsewhere.

Hopefully he will put the record straight today but with horses like Mighty Flying Major  and Captain Dolmio in front of him I am not confident. Maybe I'll throw him into a boxed tri or first 4.

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Re: Ideal Belle (AGM)

Post by Conwell on Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:05 pm

And then there were 5, as Stunin Banner has also been withdrawn from tomorrow nights race. That leaves just 1 off the front and 1 off 10m, with the other 3 off 30m. Belle has opened as 2nd Fav at $2.60 behind Arden's Choice who she beat 2 starts ago in the Holmes DG.

What does everyone think of The Faithful's chances off 30m tomorrow afternoon? His record is terrible left handed, so while he's clearly up to this class I still can't feel that confident about him. He has also opened as 2nd Fav for his race at $4.60 behind Captain Dolmio.

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